Xbox One and Machinima: Be nice or neutral, and don't tell anyone we're paying you

Breaking FTC rules?

http://www.polygon.com/2014/1/20/5327814/report-microsoft-paying-youtube-producers-xbox-one-machinima

http://kotaku.com/sketchy-promo-plan-pays-youtubers-for-positive-xbox-one-1505260408



"Xbone is the greatest thing in the universe."


Cash or Paypal only please

I read about this via ign.com very shady, but lets face it microsoft isn't the 1st company to do this and paying someone or people to say your product is good, that is just promotion

Actually, that's a pretty big breach.  Imagine if it happened to like Consumer Reports.  That's actually why they don't take advertising, to ensure editorial independence.  That's also why sometimes you read things like "This website is owned by AOL, subsidiary of Time Warner" or in things like stock quotes where Jim Kramer or whoever will disclose that they a certain personal or company position on a specific stock.  It's about being transparent about anything that may cause you to lean one way or the other on a subject.

Advertising and Ad Sales is one thing, but for Editorial (reviews, articles - basically the meat of a mag or website) to only say positive things about a product and then to be barred from disclosing such an agreement hurts the integrity of that company.  Maybe it's not big deal to us internet users that are jaded and such, but to the general public, this is a breach of trust.

invisible843 wrote:

I read about this via ign.com very shady, but lets face it microsoft isn't the 1st company to do this and paying someone or people to say your product is good, that is just promotion

Er... It is only Microsoft doing it. Sony, Steam or Nintendo are not partnering with a major gaming network that promises $ in return for undisclosed positive promotion for a console that will most likely not meet their sales expectations.

Everyone who signed up for this is obligated by law to disclose that they are  promoting the Xbox One and they are getting paid for it.

This contract says they can't say they're being paid to do so.

This is sleazy and basically bribery.  It is also illegal.

Do you guys think we can tell by the vids if its a "payed by xbox1" video? or just someone that pleased by the x1?

invisible843 wrote:

Do you guys think we can tell by the vids if its a "payed by xbox1" video? or just someone that pleased by the x1?

That's the problem. With this MSFT program, you can't. Previously, by law, you had to disclose if you were getting paid by the advertiser. If there was no disclosure, then you would assume that the content was NOT paid for and fully the author's opinion. With this secret program, you can't be sure of the authenticity of any Machima video on the XB1 that was posted during that time frame.

Here's the thing that is the most ridiculous of all this.

Quote :

The campaign apparently ended almost as quickly as it started. Microsoft had hoped to reach a combined 1.25 million views on participating videos, and Poptent lists the campaign as “expired” as of January 16th. The campaign was intended to last until February 9th if it did not hit the views limit, but the extremely popular Machinima partner channels reached over a million YouTube surfers within a matter of hours. Now Microsoft can pay off the minuscule $3,750 budget and continue to reap the rewards of videos that will be available for months and years to come.

From: http://games.yahoo.com/news/microsoft-reportedly-paid-youtube-video-makers-promote-xbox-201054010.html

MSFT's total outlay... $3,750. A potential youtuber's take? Maybe a couple hundred each? All that to sell your editorial integrity. I hope a list come out of people that took advantage of this and how much they earned from it. So we know how cheaply people can get paid to shill for a product.

Here you go.  Here are the "influencers" from MS/Mach Sleaze program.

1. edupop2 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/edupop2/ 1,055 subscribers
2. soldjaswaggang accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/SoldjaSwagGang/ 1,079 subscribers
3. atomicjorge-6083 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/ATOMICJORGE/ 11,299 subscribers
4. Archiyoso CP accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/ClubPenguinNews08/ 46,008 subscribers
5. olerongamercrew accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/OleronGamerCrew/ 1,553 subscribers
6. rapiddominance3-2365 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/RapidDominance357/ 1,307 subscribers
7. LionGamesOFICIAL . accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/LionGamesOFICIAL/ 54 subscribers
8. joseleyva1384 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment
9. MYMTUMTUM accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/MYMTUMTUM/ 152,767 subscribers
10. superman049-0776 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/Superman049/ 37,858 subscribers
11. jojopet-tv-6747 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/jojopetv/ 59,947 subscribers
12. Erinn Capozzi accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment Employee at Poptent
13. ramecadenasmx-4967 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/rameCadenasMX/ 16,993 subscribers
14. LifeAndDeathLive accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/LifeAndDeathLive/ 12,515 subscribers
15. mrwolfsergio3 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/mrwolfsergio3/ 53,325 subscribers
16. melki716 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment Channel deleted
17. ralnegas accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/MrDonMakila/ 357,661 subscribers
18. evilxjughernog accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/evilxjughernog/ 21,045 subscribers
19. Geroldus accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/Geroldus/ 1,805 subscribers
20. luisitocomunica1 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/LuisitoComunicaa/ 59,467 subscribers
21. FIFABennerz accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/FIFABennerz/ 5,998 subscribers
22. VenomTheDoctor accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/venomneatikaa/ 18,931 subscribers
23. K3yboard accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/K3yboardBr/ 13,001 subscribers
24. DestryLP accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/DestryLP/ 615 subscribers
25. MrDavetherave411 . accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/MrDavetherave411/ 38,170 subscribers
26. Deniso accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/PS3Deniso/ 5,113 subscribers
27. Thomas Brewington accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/TommyPhoenixx/ 214 subscribers
28. TWiiNSANE accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/hallidc1/ 35,624 subscribers
29. NerosCinema accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/NerosCinema/ 114,174 subscribers
30. Niscenti accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/Niscenti/ 18,820 subscribers
31. Nine accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/LegitMeow/ 122,779 subscribers
32. XCVii007r1 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/XCVii007r1/ 60,000+ subscribers
33. francky01700 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/deathnot10/ (80% sure) 635 subscribers
34. opticpugs accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/RecordingMyGameplay/ 6,087 subscribers
35. ducain23 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/ducain23/ 30,529 subscribers
36. ViP2GAMING accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/VIP2GAMING/ 12,487 subscribers
37. Electrofries O. accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/soyelectropapafrita/ 2,325 subscribers
38. ChrisJayRommel accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/GamingWithChrisJay/ 7,787 subscribers
39. alexjowen accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/alexjowen/ 129 subscribers
40. MrvinhoO accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/MrVinhoO/ 8,113 subscribers
41. MisterBo accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/iamMisterBo/ 3,720 subscribers
42. MooSnuckel accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/BnBENTERPR1SES/ 110,810 subscribers
43. Sumcomedy accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/Sumcomedy/ 246 subscribers
44. asdffadsf accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/D0minaHD/ 15,269 subscribers
45. welshdragondsg accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/WelshDragonDsG/ 15,478 subscribers
46. Videoyun accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/videoyunrespawn/ 125,302 subscribers
47. joblessgamers accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/Joblessgamers/ 180,413 subscribers
48. DJ Parsons accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/DJparsons89/ 6,595 subscribers
49. mathchief accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/MathChief11/ 7,778 subscribers
50. hardyfanthe1stb-4054 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/Hardyfanthe1stBITW/ 2,863 subscribers
51. Olli43 . accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/Olli43/ 135,458 subscribers
52. cdnleon accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/coisadenerd/ 1,621,713 subscribers
53. christrout91 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/christrout91/ 140,521 subscribers
54. TaylorTheSniper . accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/TaylorTheSniper/ 14,167 subscribers
55. Feromonas accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/Fer0m0nas/ 1,822,760 subscribers
56. finch accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/finch/ 60,948 subscribers
57. Max Christiansen accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/Miles923/ https://www.youtube.com/user/YoVideogames/ 200,012 subscribers
58. Prismgaminguk accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/PrismGamingUK/ 6,797 subscribers
59. UniqueRiggers accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/UniqueRiggers/ 114,032 subscribers
60. ChesnoidGaming accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/ChesnoidGaming/ 4,650 subscribers
61. FaZeWally accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/Wallbangg/ 28,071 subscribers
62. theRadBrad accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/theRadBrad/ 2,141,274 subscribers
63. slash5150 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/Slash5150/ https://www.youtube.com/user/KhaosGamingTV/ 1,456 subscribers
64. Eight Thoughts accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/SexiestGamerAlive/ 4,306 subscribers
65. itani-8331-7499 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/PokemonITANI/ 205,780 subscribers
66. Erik TH accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment Poptent Staff
67. lalo.charolastra accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/lalocharo/ 84,700 subscribers
68. arCtyC accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/arCtiCvBi/ 28,538 subscribers
69. gearsofwar2009 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment Machinima Director
70. Chris552299HD accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/Chris552299HD/ 403 subscribers
71. iLewisGTA accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/GCNentertainment2012/ 4,641 subscribers
72. GaBBoDSQUARED accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/GaBBoDSQ/ 327,559 subscribers
73. acidglow accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/acidglow/ 19,979 subscribers
74. GameRiotArmy . accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/GameRiotArmy/ 164,935 subscribers
75. nadygames accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/nadnfs/ 23,062 subscribers
76. Psyhodelik Stanisavljevic accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/psyhodelik/ 9,226 subscribers
77. xJasonV2 . accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/xJasonV2/ 626 subscribers
78. ZackScott accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/ZackScottGames/ https://www.youtube.com/user/ZackScott/ 780,116 subscribers
79. eduardobenvenuti accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment subscribers https://www.youtube.com/user/BRKsEDU/ 1,456,657 subscribers
80. AZZATRU accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/AZZATRU/ 107 subscribers
81. Matt Myer accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/SportsGamingUniverse/ 69,121 subscribers
82. tetraninja accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/tetraninja/ 510,558 subscribers
83. Elitspartano117 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/elitspartano117/ 2,074 subscribers
84. poptester13 accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment
Nick Sheets launched the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment

Total channels: 78
Total subscriber base for indoctrination: 11,789,990
Amount of channels with >10,000 subscribers: 47 out of 78 (60%)
Amount of channels with >100,000 subscribers: 20 out of 78 (26%)
Amount of channels with >1,000,000 subscribers: 4 out of 78 (5%)

Top 10 channels subscribed to this campaign (by number of subscribers):
#1. 2,141,274
#2. 1,822,760
#3. 1,621,713
#4. 1,456,657
#5. 780,116
#6. 510,558
#7. 357,661
#8. 327,559
#9. 205,780
#10. 200,012

nely's been on gaf again !

Never heard of any of those tubers

This was on Machinima...who has always been shady. They have sent out a new email letting people know that they do have to disclose that they are being paid for this.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/21/5331430/microsoft-machinima-xbox-one-youtube-promotions-response

Let's not pretend Sony doesn't do thing like this....and far worse:

http://www.eonline.com/news/48182/sony-settles-manning-suit
http://www.edge-online.com/news/sony-psp-viral-campaign-poorly-executed/

Well hey, if it's good enough for the "Federal Reserve" then have at it right?

MoneyMan300 wrote:

This was on Machinima...who has always been shady. They have sent out a new email letting people know that they do have to disclose that they are being paid for this.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/21/5331430/microsoft-machinima-xbox-one-youtube-promotions-response

Let's not pretend Sony doesn't do thing like this....and far worse:

http://www.eonline.com/news/48182/sony-settles-manning-suit
http://www.edge-online.com/news/sony-psp-viral-campaign-poorly-executed/

Thanks for the heads up on issues from 2004 & 2006. Hey, EA does it too so I guess it is Machinima & MS are absolved.

walldoggy wrote:

 So we know how cheaply people can get paid to shill for a product.

Some people do it for free.....  

I'm not absolving anyone.  Machinima screwed up here and have now fixed it.  There's nothing wrong with MS using Machinima for a promotion.  Journalistic integrity is in the hands of the people making the videos....it's up to them if they want to be a shill for this.   Anytime you are under the arm of MCN like Machinima you have to follow their terms and condition...these do not come from MS, Sony, or anyone else.

Who cares if those are from 2004 and 2006?  MS is paying Machinima to help promote their product....nothing illegal or immoral about that.

I'll never believe Machinima just took it upon themselves to advertise for Microsoft out of the kindness of their hearts.  This is an obvious business decision and they were encouraged (financially) to do so.

The agreement that Machinima sent out was in clear violation of the FTC which states...

"When there exists a connection between the endorser and the seller of the advertised product that might materially affect the weight or credibility of the endorsement (i.e., the connection is not reasonably expected by the audience), such connection must be fully disclosed."

Machinima clearly stated in their CPM agreement to YouTubers NOT to disclose ANY portion of the agreement.  Now some may argue that paid advertisements / celebrity advertisements are just par for the course.  However IMO this scenario was clearly deceptive.

To me its clearly unethical and displays just how desperate Microsoft (and now EA) are. Why is this a big deal? Because the FTC has these rules in place for a reason...so big monopolizing businesses can give the little guy a fair shake.

Microsoft is definitely paying Machinima for their services...that is not disputed. Machinima came out with an update accepting responsibility for the language in their terms and conditions and sent out an update to the youtubers explaining that they must disclose they are being paid for their promotion of the the product. I still don't see where MS is being unethical here...they are paying Machinima for a promotion. Now Machinima on the other hand??

I'll give you that - we have no proof how MS disclosed the terms of the deal. However how do you just "forget" to include a disclosure? lol I'm guessing this was a "oops we got caught" fix.

Nely wrote:

Here you go.  Here are the "influencers" from MS/Mach Sleaze program.

7. LionGamesOFICIAL . accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment https://www.youtube.com/user/LionGamesOFICIAL/ 54 subscribers

This guy scored!

MoneyMan300 wrote:

Microsoft is definitely paying Machinima for their services...that is not disputed.  Machinima came out with an update accepting responsibility for the language in their terms and conditions and sent out an update to the youtubers explaining that they must disclose they are being paid for their promotion of the the product.  I still don't see where MS is being unethical here...they are paying Machinima for a promotion.   Now Machinima on the other hand??

The last few promotions Machinima had were for E3 and Comic Con. Both of those contracts had disclosures in them. The MS contract said they could not.

This is out of the norm. Do you really believe that Machinima did this on their own? They do promotions all the time.

Of course Machinima is going to fall on the sword. Machinima needs MS more than MS needs Machinima.

Trying to buy positive press and hiding it is unethical. It now damages the brand because when you see a positive review, video etc... You have to wonder if they are on the take.

MoneyMan300 wrote:

This was on Machinima...who has always been shady. They have sent out a new email letting people know that they do have to disclose that they are being paid for this.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/21/5331430/microsoft-machinima-xbox-one-youtube-promotions-response

Let's not pretend Sony doesn't do thing like this....and far worse:

http://www.eonline.com/news/48182/sony-settles-manning-suit
http://www.edge-online.com/news/sony-psp-viral-campaign-poorly-executed/

And Sony paid the price for doing this should Microsoft get away with it !!!

Repo_Dog wrote:

MoneyMan300 wrote:

This was on Machinima...who has always been shady. They have sent out a new email letting people know that they do have to disclose that they are being paid for this.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/21/5331430/microsoft-machinima-xbox-one-youtube-promotions-response

Let's not pretend Sony doesn't do thing like this....and far worse:

http://www.eonline.com/news/48182/sony-settles-manning-suit
http://www.edge-online.com/news/sony-psp-viral-campaign-poorly-executed/

And Sony paid the price for doing this should Microsoft get away with it !!!

Please come with something better than Sony does it too. Sony got raked over the coals for it.

MoneyMan300 wrote:

I'm not absolving anyone.  Machinima screwed up here and have now fixed it.  There's nothing wrong with MS using Machinima for a promotion.  Journalistic integrity is in the hands of the people making the videos....it's up to them if they want to be a shill for this.   Anytime you are under the arm of MCN like Machinima you have to follow their terms and condition...these do not come from MS, Sony, or anyone else.

Who cares if those are from 2004 and 2006?  MS is paying Machinima to help promote their product....nothing illegal or immoral about that.

Machinima + PAX = Disclosure
Machinima + E3 = Disclosure
Machinima + Comic-Con = Disclosure
Machinima + Xbox = Non-disclosure

Interesting movements here by MS from http://blogs.computerworld.com/gov039t-legislationregulation/23423/microsoft-kills-stealth-xbox-marketing-campaign-was-ftc-its-tail


Yesterday Microsoft pooh-poohed any hint that there was anything wrong with the secret campaign, telling ars technica in part:

"This partnership between Machinima and Microsoft was a typical marketing partnership..."
But then hours later, Microsoft backed off, claiming that it didn't know about the marketing campaign, and killing it. The company told GeekWire:

"Microsoft was not aware of individual contracts Machinima had with their content providers as part of this promotion and we didn’t provide feedback on any of the videos. We have asked Machinima to not post any additional Xbox One content as part of this media buy and we have asked them to add disclaimers to the videos that were part of this program indicating they were part of paid advertising."
That's the exact opposite of what the company first said. First it claimed that the partnership was a "typical" one, but then later said it "was not aware of individual contracts Machinima had with their content providers as part of this promotion." How could it say the partnership was a typical one if it wasn't aware of the contracts?

By having Machinima add disclaimers to the videos saying they are part of paid advertising, Microsoft is complying with FTC guidelines, the very guidelines it initially said it hadn't violated.

So what happened? The FTC may well have been on Microsoft's tail, asking for materials related to the campaign. And if not, you can be sure that Microsoft's lawyers were on the company's tail, because the partnership seemed a clear violation of FTC guidelines.

No matter what happened, though, Microsoft didn't cover itself in roses with this one. Its initial response to the revelation was flat-out wrong, even if it did eventually do the right thing by pulling the campaign and offering full disclosure.




MS knew exactly what they were doing period

  TLDR

I think I found what you've been looking for