You worried about Microsoft Spying you... read this...

Interesting reading....
http://www.neowin.net/news/who-cares-if-the-xbox-one-is-spying-on-you

True dat

Thanks for the article Maximus.

While debating pros/cons of XB1 and Kinect policy - to myself -, I've thought about this several times (devices around us with cameras and internet), and the article has a point, all cell phones, tables and laptops have camera's we can't physically disconnect.

MS's unveil of Kinect policy came at a really bad time with news about Prism coming out. The sad fact is that the gov't and corporations are actively collecting/processing massive amounts of data anyway, for various reasons (the general public's 'safety', internet ease of use like google features/suggestions, advertising, profits, etc.). The kinect just pushed the envelope further into our living room and linked our private behavior in our home with directed advertising and media content (with it's creepy accuracy of detecting heart beat, excitement and mood).

Drift0r stated good reasons why the average, majority of people should not allow the erosion of our privacy in a right to privacy video:



However, the masses will (and I don't blame them) continue to purchase and use the latest and new technology and the majority of North America will continue to buy the XB1 regardless of the Kinect policy.

As Wicked Shrapnel said it in a console video, gaming is about playing with your friends online. If your network of friends has one console, you'll also buy it to play together (another reason that is fueling the console debates/war) we all want to play together and don't want to be split, but we all have personal views on privacy, etc.

Anyway, my long rant on privacy and cameras coming to an end. Even if MS doesn't let you disconnect the Kinect, you can still cover the camera and mic to prevent eavesdropping, but the fact that monitoring is becoming standard and that you have to 'hide' in your own home is a big sore spot.

I - like the majority - haven't completely made up my mind on PS or XB, but as alluded to above, technology will continue to evolve, cameras will increase, all our information will eventually be on a server somewhere and we'll buy the system our friends buy because we want to feel connected and have fun gaming together. Thank god for this clan! :)Cheers

TripleAce Andy wrote:

Thanks for the article Maximus.

While debating pros/cons of XB1 and Kinect policy - to myself -, I've thought about this several times (devices around us with cameras and internet), and the article has a point, all cell phones, tables and laptops have camera's we can't physically disconnect.

MS's unveil of Kinect policy came at a really bad time with news about Prism coming out. The sad fact is that the gov't and corporations are actively collecting/processing massive amounts of data anyway, for various reasons (the general public's 'safety', internet ease of use like google features/suggestions, advertising, profits, etc.). The kinect just pushed the envelope further into our living room and linked our private behavior in our home with directed advertising and media content (with it's creepy accuracy of detecting heart beat, excitement and mood).

Drift0r stated good reasons why the average, majority of people should not allow the erosion of our privacy in a right to privacy video:



However, the masses will (and I don't blame them) continue to purchase and use the latest and new technology and the majority of North America will continue to buy the XB1 regardless of the Kinect policy.

As Wicked Shrapnel said it in a console video, gaming is about playing with your friends online. If your network of friends has one console, you'll also buy it to play together (another reason that is fueling the console debates/war) we all want to play together and don't want to be split, but we all have personal views on privacy, etc.

Anyway, my long rant on privacy and cameras coming to an end. Even if MS doesn't let you disconnect the Kinect, you can still cover the camera and mic to prevent eavesdropping, but the fact that monitoring is becoming standard and that you have to 'hide' in your own home is a big sore spot.

I - like the majority - haven't completely made up my mind on PS or XB, but as alluded to above, technology will continue to evolve, cameras will increase, all our information will eventually be on a server somewhere and we'll buy the system our friends buy because we want to feel connected and have fun gaming together. Thank god for this clan! :)Cheers

there is no pc . laptop that has a camera or a mic I can't dis connect in my house!
And cell phone's sense I refuse to have a smart phone that I would not use! this maybe the only mic or camera in my house I do not have total control over and it cant see me in the lather protector poach !

why can't we have the best of both worlds where if I want the kennct plugged in I go get it out of the box with the rest of the spie stuff and use it than put it away and still be able to use the rest of my stuff with out it ! OOo just like I do now ! there is no reason it can't work that way! and still have all the new shit ! I will fight for my privacy I like the new shit but like my privacy more !


HELLO BIG BROTHER !!

the kiect doesnt bother me, if anything it will just prove to microsoft how boring of a person i really am. If the Kinect counts how many beers i have and then tells my wife, then i'll have an issue!!

The debate of being afraid of being "spied on" is just nonsense.  Who really cares.  Who has the time to monitor what someone does in there living room.  I sit on my ass, watch TV and play Call of Duty.  "They" caught me!!!

If that's your reason for not buying a the new xbox, you are one paranoid dude.  

Repo, your in your own class man, in trying to understand what you wrote, you just wish it was 1998 still.

birddotcom wrote:

The debate of being afraid of being "spied on" is just nonsense.  Who really cares.  Who has the time to monitor what someone does in there living room.  I sit on my ass, watch TV and play Call of Duty.  "They" caught me!!!

If that's your reason for not buying a the new xbox, you are one paranoid dude.  

Repo, your in your own class man, in trying to understand what you wrote, you just wish it was 1998 still.

If you do not thank there are people out there that will try to watch you or your littel girl in her room you are sadly wrong I have seen laptop and tablets doing it and the people
or littel girl not even knowing it !

and it is not why I won't get one it is the piont !

I think the fear is the data collection that could potentially be done. Kinect is pretty advanced and I have seen articles posing the idea that it could potentially read into a lot of the things around your living room and then adjust the Xbox advertising to sell you things you are more likely to buy. Got beer on your coffee table? Kinect reads the UPC and tells you the Wal-Mart down the street (since it knows where you live) has a deal on it this week.

Having an argument with your spouse? Kinect has got your back! Here's a website with 50% off Tylenol.

This is a pretty extreme vision of a dystopian capitalist future, but just that idea makes people uncomfortable. Plus it is pretty valuable information that borders on mind control. Advertisers already do pretty messed up things to get you to buy their products and now they can watch you masturbate and then recommend Extenze.

Really the whole issue is just how Microsoft presented a lot of their ideas. Instead of saying "look at all the cool shit the Kinect does and look at what we can do with always online - this is why we added these features", they basically said "Kinect is watching you 24/7, and you have to sign in every 24 hours so we can download your data! Oh, and you'll like it or you can fuck off!"

Essentially the E3 marketing/announcement of the features wasn't handled that well.

I don't think I could be less concerned about Kinect and privacy invasion.

I'm actually hoping it truly is the leap foward that they claim. I never put a Kinect on any of my 360's and at times wished I had.

Sorta lookin forward to the new Kinect which will be my first experience with any motion stuff other than the wii. I'm really hoping it makes interfacing with my TV very easy like they claim it will. Maybe we'll get to the point where I can just say "Golf Masters" and the thing will find the right channel without me looking for any remote or through any guide......nothin. I'm a lazy fucker.

Lots of scary stuff is coming/could be coming but this Kinect stuff isn't the type of thing I bother worrying about.

If it makes a person uncomfortable, they shouldn't buy it.

Repo_Dog wrote:

birddotcom wrote:

The debate of being afraid of being "spied on" is just nonsense.  Who really cares.  Who has the time to monitor what someone does in there living room.  I sit on my ass, watch TV and play Call of Duty.  "They" caught me!!!

If that's your reason for not buying a the new xbox, you are one paranoid dude.  

Repo, your in your own class man, in trying to understand what you wrote, you just wish it was 1998 still.

If you do not thank there are people out there that will try to watch you or your littel girl in her room you are sadly wrong  I have seen laptop and tablets doing it and the people
or littel girl not  even knowing it !

and it is not why I won't get one it is the piont !

I have always put some kinda electrical tape, painters tape, ect over cameras when I am not using them especially on laptops tablets ect. For the mic a physical wire that goes to it is the only real way to disconnect one, but there is a reverse process you can use to capture sound by using speakers that are already in everything. (like tv laptops ect) are they using that? IDK. I mean just look at it one way. They used to make lens covers or shutter doors on cameras on cell phone. I used to have one on a phone I had. Now none of them do. Why is that. I know alot of people don't think this is a big deal. I don't know that it is. But, what better way to monitor everyone than to get them to buy the equipment that one would use to monitor. Wither it be Xbox, ps3, ones vehicle, your laptop/tablet/desktop/phone 4G connected smart camera or virtually anything that has an ip address and connects to the internet. It doesn't have to report in real time(but most do now days I think). It can just send a report when you say plug it into your computer like your iphone or other apple product does.

@birddotcom , they don't have to have time to look at what you are doing. They have software built into platforms that does this for them(in theory) in whatever you just bought. Like your new xbox one for example.

@fightingokra75 I don't think the kinect is alone something to worry about. Its whatever is behind all the scary things coming out or being pushed that is what everyone. and I mean everyone needs to be worried about.

Just my 02  

It is simple give people the fucking option to take it off ! just because allot people don't want it does Not mean they are living out of time !

I'm not sure why people are so concerned about data collection. I personally am not doing anything illegal in my house. I have no deep dark secret for the government to uncover about me. If this kind of technology helps them to catch dangerous criminals, terrorist or whatever I am glad for it. I probably watch too many movies but still it seems like they say pull up facial recognition within a 50 mile radius a lot in movies so I figure there must be some truth to it. I think the biggest thing this stuff is used for is marketing and advertisement when it comes to ordinary citizens. I have no problem with companies personalizing the ads I see to stuff I might actually be interested in.

I don't know maybe this is the wrong attitude and I should be outraged that the government and corporations can get intelligence about me but it don't. I read something recently that no corporation invaded privacy more and obtained more personal information than Apple. It doesn't seem to be slowing down their sells any.

Apple and Google are notorious data miners.

It hasn't stopped me from using their devices and I actually see the benefits of Google's data mining/tracking.....in the form of ads I'm interested in rather than junk while I browse.

I assume MS will use the same sort of stuff which will make it easier for me to find things I might be interested in....since they'll slap it out in front of my face based on my buying patterns or whatever.

I think if XB1 came out last year, there wouldn't be as big of a deal as it is now. With PRISM, it's heightened everyones awareness of what companies can do without your knowledge.

Would anyone be ok if I installed a webcam in your living room and said, "This camera is required for you to use electronics that you bought, and that you own. Even though it's plugged in and I can control it remotely, it's off. Trust me I won't look at it ever unless you tell me I can."

Why not? You aren't doing anything illegal right? You have nothing to be afraid of. Why not?

Because it's creepy and really, I don't trust you. I trust corporations and government even less, so...

Cell phones and lap tops, I can turn around, shut off, close the lid, uninstall, whatever. The core functionality is not affected. Sure there is GPS in my phone and I can shut it off, but can it be remotely turned on? I have no idea. But it's a trade off I make so I can use maps and directions and tell people when I am at Disneyland to make them jealous. lol

Okra is right, if you are uncomfortable with it, don't buy it. Vote with your wallet. I plan to do so. Doesn't make me right or wrong, just my opinion and I'm entitled to that. I'm sure it's going to be a great system and maybe I will get it one day. I was talking to my brother-in-law, an attorney, about it and he's going to get it. I brought up all the Kinect stuff and he said, "I'm just a creature of habit and I like Halo, so I'm getting it." End of story. haha

Just wondering.............. If i reserve the right's to my likeness or image, much like celebrities, Can i charge M$ fee's for watching me pick the lint out of my belly button or just scratching my balls?

Hmmm, i see the new nature shows appearing in the distant future..................."Tonight on the discovery channel we will be watching" Men in the mist, a closer look at the homo erectus in it's natural habitat.

Now if they would spin it that way i would so let them record me swollen on camera!!  

The Kinect won't record you on camera or listen to your conversations unless you tell it to do so.

Not as mysterious and sexy I know.

I do wish that type of stuff would stop so that people will choose systems based on facts rather than rumors. Lots of people really believe that the Kinect will be on, and be able to broadcast you....without you even knowing.....and it is "built in to the system".

People believe that the kinect must be turned on and you must be connected to the internet for the xbox to work......none of which is true.

Hey, I'm as anti big government as anybody you'll find. I've actually voted for the Libertarians the past 3 election cycles.....because I can't stand big brother......money where my mouth is and whatnot. If people are really scared of big brother then how in the world do we end up with these past elections/candidates? Whatever though, I digress.

Worried about big brother? Buy a 357, learn to use it and vote for small government. Picking one console over the other based on camera capabilities.....errrr.....not going to have any effect on the problem.

Okra, unless there has been further clarification since this article was published (beginning of June), I think this is, at least for me, the issue (underline is my emphasis):

http://www.neoseeker.com/news/23122-microsoft-details-how-an-alwayson-kinect-works-with-the-xbox-one-why-you-are-in-control/

Quote :

On, Off, or Paused - Microsoft states clearly that at any time you can pause the Kinect, or say, "Xbox Off," to turn the whole console off. The subtle statement here is that the Kinect does not turn off unless the Xbox is off. However, it appears as if the entirety of the Kinect's functionality can be disabled, even the ability to say "Xbox On" when the console is off. Again, it isn't clear if you can disable the Kinect from actually listening 100% of the time, only that you can disable it reacting to what you're saying.

You make the assertion that off means off. If I can fully power down the Kinect, why does it need to be connected for the XB1 to work? If its fully off, why can't I disconnect it? What purpose is it serving? Is it in a stand-by mode with minimal power draw, waiting for the XB1 to turn it on? In that case, it's not really off, is it?

And really, it's not about what they say they will and will not. It's about what they can potentially do. I know I can turn it off, and I think I know most of the facts, but it still creeps me out.

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/privacy

http://kotaku.com/xbox-one-kinect-privacy-concerns-turn-it-off-511759241

"Here are all the soothing bullet points.

You are in control of what Kinect can see and hear: By design, you will determine how responsive and personalized your Xbox One is to you and your family during setup. The system will navigate you through key privacy options, like automatic or manual sign in, privacy settings, and clear notifications about how data is used. When Xbox One is on and you’re simply having a conversation in your living room, your conversation is not being recorded or uploaded.

You are in control of when Kinect sensing is On, Off or Paused: If you don’t want the Kinect sensor on while playing games or enjoying your entertainment, you can pause Kinect. To turn off your Xbox One, just say “Xbox Off.” When the system is off, it’s only listening for the single voice command — “Xbox On,” and you can even turn that feature off too. Some apps and games may require Kinect functionality to operate, so you’ll need to turn it back on for these experiences.

You are in control of your personal data: You can play games or enjoy applications that use data, such as videos, photos, facial expressions, heart rate and more, but this data will not leave your Xbox One without your explicit permission. Here are a few examples of potential future scenarios:
A fitness game could measure heart rate data to provide you with improved feedback on your workout, allow you to track your progress, or even measure calories burned.
A card game could allow you to bluff your virtual opponent using your facial expressions.

You can use other inputs to control your games, TV and entertainment experiences: While it’s faster to find what you’re looking for using your voice and gesture commands with Kinect, you can use a controller, your remote controls or your smart devices instead. And you can use all of these devices when Kinect is paused."

So we really believe that the government is going to access our kinnect cameras turn them on and watch we what do in our living room and use that knowledge to blackmail us or use it against us in some sort of way? We really believe that there is a group of people who work for either Microsoft or the government and there job is to sit somewhere watching and monitoring everyone's living room kinnect camera and spy on them and look for anything they may be able to use? How many people would that take? Would it be one of those big security camera room with lots of screens? How many screens can one person watch sufficiently? Would there be 1 watcher for every 20 cameras? if they are watching around the clock that would be 3 shifts so 3 people employed for every 20 kinnects.

The one thing you can't do with Xbox One relating to the Kinect is not pay for it if you have no use for it. BTW, you can opt out of any sharing of your data until PRISM or the next over reaching government domestic spy program rolls out and they decide to sit on your couch with you. Slowly and incrementally giving away your rights to privacy and freedom for the sake of convenience and/or safety is not something I endorse. But, it is nice to know that things like this exist in case I become a quadriplegic.

I get the whole "evolution of gaming" and "this is the future" stuff. However, it begs the question, if I can turn it off and if I don't have to use it if I don't want to, why am I required to have it connected? Can anyone answer that? For sure, MS hasn't. If MS wants to force me to buy it, that's their decision. But let me decide what can or can't be on in my living room.

And maybe MS promises to protect our privacy, but once the government comes calling (probably secretly too), they will hand over everything they have. I'm not ok with this, regardless of if I have anything to fear or not.

Nuke,

Taking a stand against Kinect is hardly going to slow the tide. I don't have a kinect and probably would have skipped getting one if they weren't forced on us.

If people are afraid of the Kinect, don't buy the thing.

I'm ready for the "next generation" so bring on the Kinect and voice/gesture stuff that supposedly really works.

I'll continue addressing privacy issues as it pertains to the government by using my best weapon, that being my vote. I ain't dumping Google Maps because google can track me 24/7. I don't lose a minute of sleep worrying about Google wanting to use that power to allow the government to take total control of my life via the fear of monitoring. They haven't crossed any new line with Kinect imo. Much ado about nothing.

Who's lining up to toss the cell phones, tablets......and what are yall gonna do about the real future where they can really track you passively via rfid tagging without your knowledge at all.

I just don't live like that and don't think like that. I'm focusing on enjoying what benefits a new voice/gesture system might bring and not something that is extremely unlikely to ever occur......MS using Kinect to somehow harm me.......low possibility imo that really isn't worth serious consideration in the console purchase related to other things.

Not buying the Kinect might not slow the tide for some, but it stops it for me and that is all I really care about. I respect anyone's decision to buy whatever they want and do what they want within the law. That is the beauty of freedom....choice. My personal decision to use a cell phone gives up some of my privacy but unfortunately is is a necessity in my life same as using the internet. Gaming consoles requiring cameras attached to the internet are not a necessity and I will not purchase that comes with an all seeing/hearing camera. I will purchase a version that allows me to choose what I want attached to it.

You do not have to worry about me having an rfid or microchip implanted in me because that will never happen to me while I live. If anyone wants one or will allow one, I can respect that decision because that is on them.

Sounds good to me.

I'm going to go with what I think is going to be the best value overall whenever I make a final decision.

#1 will be the quality of the experience while I game

This was my #1 priority this past gen as well. The one with the best features and games will get my play time in the end....it always does.