Speaking of guns....

X-Runner wrote:

Holy shit! Looks like i started a big thread here with just (what i thought) a simple question. This is great. Love some of the stuff i am reading in here.

Ok, so i have been looking around the interwebz and i am not sure about the prices i have been seeing or hearing from people. Seems like everyone thinks guns cost a lot more than they realize. Meaning, that i have been finding them for way cheaper. Or i am seeing them on really fucked up scam websites.

Example: http://www.ar15pro.com/item/443641_Bushmaster_Rifles_Shotguns_BUSHMASTER_C15_223_16_RED_DOT_30RD.aspx?w=DX1N1wdiz3w%3d

Here is a gun i have heard should cost 1500 bucks. Is this site a scam or a rip off? Or what? Lots of cheap guns on that site. Handguns as well.

That's a very good price for a bushmaster, however you'll notice it's out of stock. This is quite common on the interwebs...you'll see very cheap guns listed, but not available. This is for the flat top it appears, in which case you'll need flip ups, carry handle or optics, adding several hundred. I bought a S&W M&P ar15 flat top at Cabela's for $889. Very nice AR for the dough.



I also saw this on the site, which is a great deal, also out of stock:

Mossberg 500 persuader 6-shot- $329 with pistol grip and heat shield. THE best choice for under the bed home defense. I'd go folding or collapsible stock personally, but this will do the trick in CQB.

Nice, i love that Persuader. Gonna have to look into getting that badboy. Yea, i saw that a lot of guns online were on back order or just plain not available. There is a local shop i want to go talk to about it. It just seems like a lot of people i talk to(on the internet and real life) are telling me i am gonna have to spend a lot. I'm just not thinking that is the case. But whatever the price, i dont care. Thanks everyone for making this a hell of a thread. Tons of good stuff in it. And thanks to all for the suggestions!!

So my wife and I went to the gun show, and I was sure I was set on getting a new FNP/FNX 9mm. My wife was in search of her LCP. She found a booth with the one she wanted on display, and as I go around to get the guy working the booths attention, I come across this...



Took her home for $475 + tax with 3 mags. It's used, but I'm not worried at all. It's an HK. I only got to put about 150 rounds through it yesterday, but the thing shoots awesome!

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X-Runner wrote:

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Sorry... fixed!

Heckler and Koch make fine weapons. Many of the world's militaries use them, which means they've been through the proving grounds. Nice piece!

USP 9mm is a great weapon. You will be very pleased with it. Great price on a what appears to be a lightly used USP.

Dat's what I gots:

XD 4" .45

I've been trying to get my CCW permit here in NM for a million years it seems. There aren't many people up where I'm at so they keep cancelling the class >:[

NM is an open carry state but I'd be scared to show my hand in some of these towns since the crazy loc's would have their concealed anyways and know who to shoot first!

Sidenote, just put some TruGlo Green rear/Red front fiber optic sites on it. Pretty sweet I tell ya!

OK so all this talk of guns and stuff got me imagining in my head that someday I might too become a gun-toting hoodlum running around The OC dual wielding and spinning as I jump down a well.

Alright, not the last part. But, at the risk of hijacking the thread, or maybe N8 or someone can start a new one for beginner noob gun owners, can you guys give some a) recommendations and tips on what to look for when getting a first gun, and b) classes, safety, lessons learned for said beginner noob?

At least for me, requirements would be range shooting only and stored somewhere inquisitive 2.5 and 1 year olds would not be able to pry, drop, or otherwise open or mess with, most likely off site as I'm sure the missus wouldn't like it there. Price, well, let's keep it reasonable (maybe up to 2 or 3 PS3's worth?)

That is not a reasonable thread question Walldog. Think of guns like automobiles. Some are fast, some have good mileage, some can hold 12 people, some can haul 20 tons. Depends on what application the automobile is being used for. Trying to start a thread that lists the go tos for beginning gun owners is like starting a thread that lists the best automobile for a beginning driver. It is very case dependent and really depends on what your intended uses for the weapon are, your goals, your tastes, your budget, your size, abilities, etc. etc... I have no problem helping share my experiences and knowledge with someone and hopefully they can avoid the common pitfalls and mistakes. (mistakes are spendy in the gun world)

Lets take you for example. I am assuming that you have never fired a firearm in your life, you have had no training in safe operation and handeling of a weapon, and most of your information comes from TV and video games. You gave me direction because you want a range weapon and not a personal defense or home defense weapon. that narrows it down a little bit. Plus living in The Republic of Kominfornia will limit some of your options. What you are looking for is a starter weapon that will be reliable and a good trainer on the basic fundamentals of marksmanship and weapons safety.

Here is where I need more information. Do you understand the differences between a shotgun, Pistol, and Rifle? As a starter I would recommend a rifle. Are you looking to kill pop cans at 50 yards or kill pop cans at 300 yards? Do you want something you can shoot fast like a semi auto or something you have to take your time with and get just right for every shot like a bolt action? Do you have plans on teaching your children on this rifle or do you want to keep it "daddy's toy"? Will it be a safe queen, always cleaned and padded in foam in a locked box or will it be covered in mud and thrown behind the seat of a truck? Do you like classic architecture (steel and wood) or exotic polymers? Lots of questions and we are just scratching the surface. Being in CA you will be limited to a 10 round magazine on any weapon so that takes a lot of the fun out of semi-automatic rifles.

Post away and I am sure some of us gun nuts can chime in to try and help you. As a caveat, here is the best advice I can give you. Gun nuts personal preferences are like assholes. They are all different, some stink, but they usually all work.

I'm lucky enough to live near a fine indoor gun range/shop where you can try out damn near anything before you buy. If there is one near you, look into that for starters.

Then as N8 asked, long gun?, handgun? plinking soda cans? or making watermelons explode? Do you ever intend to hunt with it?

My first experience with guns was a 1940's Winchester Model 94 lever action when I was 12. I shot many deer with it with just iron sights. If you've ever seen a Western, you've seen a model 94 Winchester...it was the main saddle gun of many a frontiersman. Equally useful for killing a bison or protecting your family from injuns.

Anyway, I didn't get a handgun until I was in my 20s, then it was a revolver...the most basic and unfuckupable gun you can own. I still have it.

My point is, you'll learn to appreciate the nuances of firearms the more experience you have with as many different types as possible. By all means, talk to gun shop groupies, go online, ask friends, etc. Some of the most simplistic are also the most enjoyable. 2 of the guns on my bucket list are as simple as can be...side by side Italian 16 gauge and a .416 Rigby double rifle for my cape buffalo trophy. I have already told mrs. FBD about this one so she has many years to prepare.

Try revolvers, automatics, pump action, lever action...everything. But beware...you'll soon develop a case of G.A.S. Gun Acquisition Syndrome. It's very expensive and you'll find that you spend more time trying to acquire guns that actually shooting them. You've been warned!

this thread is awesome...nearing post whore epic level and way more informative. FBD when you talk about that gun all I can think of is Chuck Connors and The Rifleman...loved that show...

I had a gun nut buddy take me out to the range and we shot 10 different types of guns. .22 revolvers all the way up to 1911. They all felt different, like way different. The .40 we shot felt like it had more kick than the .45 despite the caliber being different. Some smacked you, some felt like a dull thud in your hand. Some trigger pulls took 8 lbs of force (.38 snub nose and double action semi) and some almost fired just by thinking about it too hard (The 1911 felt like a hair trigger).

It was a great time and i cant wait to go again.

What I did learn is there is a huge personal preference factor. Hand size, the 'feel' of the gun and how much the rounds cost are only 3 of the factors. Some ammo is .50 a shot. others is 2.00 a shot (and more) and that is just for range ammo. We are not even talking about the self defense round with the points that are designed to expand and shred people trying to kill you and your family from the inside at 3000'/second.

Do you have a gun nut friend? These are handy to have around...

I second having a gun nut friend around. Be very, very careful around gun store employees and the bullshit they peddle. They work for minimum wage and I have met more than not that are so full of shit that I couldn't even bring myself to argue with them and instead just turned around and walked out. The big box stores are even worse. Big 5, Walmart, Cabella usually always have fucktards working with an occasional employee that actually knows what he is talking about. Ranges are your best bet. If you have a friend that is law enforcement they are a good resource for everyday carry handguns and the local laws. Still waiting for more info from you to help narrow it down.

Handgun comfort is sort of counterintuitive. Smaller/lighter means more felt recoil, at least in revolvers. Larger/heavier means more stability. Some little .38 airweight snubnosed revolvers feel like a firecracker exploding in the palm of your hand, and a Colt Anaconda 6" .44 feels completely balanced and stable.

Same with shotguns. My son's 20 gauge single shot kicks harder with low brass than my 3 1/2" Magnum Benelli Super Black Eagle Waterfowler.

Try as many as possible. You'll learn what you like rather quickly.

If you have a sporting clays course nearby, I HIGHLY recommend giving that a run. Easily my favorite firearms related activity besides pheasant hunting. Think Golf with a Shotgun. Around 18 stations, usually 100 rounds of clay pigeons in all sorts of flying patterns and environments. Truly great fun for the entire family...women, adolescents, etc. I've seen little kids shoot in the 90s with cheap Stoeger double barrel 28 gauges.

You can rent guns at the courses, but if you like it, you can buy a very functional clays/field gun for $400 and now you have the perfect home defense weapon as an added bonus. I would just steer clear of pump guns it you plan on shooting clays often. Go with a double barrel or auto.

clay shooting is a great way to start. user friendly for yourself and the kids and one of the cheapest ways to shoot. few bucks for a box of clays, a few bucks for a box of shells, and off you go to the range. All kinds of fun. I still use a pump for clays because I like it better even though I know a semi auto is better suited for it.

BigDaddyN8 wrote:

clay shooting is a great way to start. user friendly for yourself and the kids and one of the cheapest ways to shoot. few bucks for a box of clays, a few bucks for a box of shells, and off you go to the range. All kinds of fun. I still use a pump for clays because I like it better even though I know a semi auto is better suited for it.

Clays shooting is very rewarding to beginners too. Instant accomplishment, unlike poking holes in paper at the range. HUGE smiles on peoples faces when they break their first clay bird.

You don't even really need a clays course. Just buy a hand launcher for $10 and a case of clays for $10 (100ct) and find a field. Box of 25 target loads is uber cheap too.

Here's a good indicator of what to expect. Some courses are nicer, but you get the idea.

BigDaddyN8 wrote:

Lets take you for example. I am assuming that you have never fired a firearm in your life, you have had no training in safe operation and handeling of a weapon, and most of your information comes from TV and video games. You gave me direction because you want a range weapon and not a personal defense or home defense weapon. that narrows it down a little bit. Plus living in The Republic of Kominfornia will limit some of your options. What you are looking for is a starter weapon that will be reliable and a good trainer on the basic fundamentals of marksmanship and weapons safety.

Thanks for all the replies guys. Sorry, I haven't been able to formulate a response until now. My initial thought was a questions for all beginners, but N8's (and other's) replies make me realize that's not exactly feasible, or ideal as we’d all have different needs. So screw everyone else and let’s just deal with me. Haha.

I have been to an indoor range a couple times, maybe 15-20 years ago. I know we shot handguns, a .22 and a 9mm for sure. Don’t really remember the makes or models. Went with some friends, very rudimentary instruction on how to load and fire it. So I’m sure a gun instruction class would be very helpful and necessary.

BigDaddyN8 wrote:

Here is where I need more information. Do you understand the differences between a shotgun, Pistol, and Rifle? As a starter I would recommend a rifle. Are you looking to kill pop cans at 50 yards or kill pop cans at 300 yards? Do you want something you can shoot fast like a semi auto or something you have to take your time with and get just right for every shot like a bolt action? Do you have plans on teaching your children on this rifle or do you want to keep it "daddy's toy"? Will it be a safe queen, always cleaned and padded in foam in a locked box or will it be covered in mud and thrown behind the seat of a truck? Do you like classic architecture (steel and wood) or exotic polymers? Lots of questions and we are just scratching the surface. Being in CA you will be limited to a 10 round magazine on any weapon so that takes a lot of the fun out of semi-automatic rifles.

I do understand the differences between the types of guns, at least I think I do. The shotgun is the annoying thing that kills me from 50 yards away right? Oh wait, that’s MW3. Seriously though, while I’m open to the merits of any of them, I think I’d most likely be at an indoor range somewhere in suburbia. That means paper targets and mostly handguns I think. I don’t know where the nearest outdoor range is where I could shoot pop cans at any distance, although I think that would be fun too. As for teaching, my kids are 2.5 and 1 and depending on how “into it” I get, I’d probably want to show them too.

As for conditions, I think it would be in a case, clean and padded and never taken out for anything other than the range. My biggest concern is safety in the home, so some suggestions there would be good. Is it possible to store it at the range that I go to on a regular basis (once I find one)?

I like both classic and exotic architecture. If I had to choose, I’d probably go with classic.

I don't know about Cali, but a lot of ranges here allow both rifles, shotguns, as well as handguns. I'm actually going on Sat with my Ak.

Searching your local gun shop websites may help in your local laws and options. I don't know about them holding on to it for you though, perhaps a nice small safe at your home could be an option?

Dammit. I just spent an hour writing a response to walldog with pics and links and lost the response. Shit. Walldog, I will get you a good answer tomorrow. Or you can come play BF3 with me and the boys and I will tell you all about it while we wreck shit.

BigDaddyN8 wrote:

Dammit. I just spent an hour writing a response to walldog with pics and links and lost the response. Shit. Walldog, I will get you a good answer tomorrow. Or you can come play BF3 with me and the boys and I will tell you all about it while we wreck shit.

Sorry about the lost hour. I'm sure it was, like all you posts, quite informative and timely.

I would join you guys on BF3, but then I'd have to go to Gamestop to get a used copy for $40, THEN pay an additional $15 just to get online. That is a major roadblock to me playing BF3. Well, that and disappointing Bee_Swarm and Canis. I can wait on the response. It's not like I've even brought this up to the wife yet. lol

FBD wrote:

BigDaddyN8 wrote:

clay shooting is a great way to start. user friendly for yourself and the kids and one of the cheapest ways to shoot. few bucks for a box of clays, a few bucks for a box of shells, and off you go to the range. All kinds of fun. I still use a pump for clays because I like it better even though I know a semi auto is better suited for it.

Clays shooting is very rewarding to beginners too. Instant accomplishment, unlike poking holes in paper at the range. HUGE smiles on peoples faces when they break their first clay bird.

You don't even really need a clays course. Just buy a hand launcher for $10 and a case of clays for $10 (100ct) and find a field. Box of 25 target loads is uber cheap too.

Sunnuvabeetch... these 2 posts have got me thinking that I need, yes NEED a shotgun.

How is the Mossberg 500 for this? I've seen some used on GB for $150-$200. This is a reasonable pricepoint... at least until the wife approves of an upgrade later on.

@ Walldog, at least I tried a shameless plug to recruit you. I will get you an answer soon.

@LL Hell yeah get the Mossberg 500. Great shotgun. cheap, reliable, does everything you need. We had Mossberg 500's in Iraq and they are durable. I have one and love it. Its what I use for home defense, turkey hunting, and clay shooting. very versatile. They can be upgraded easily. Buy the game combo kit with two barrels. You get a 28 inch ribbed choke (sounds nasty) and a 18 inch smooth bore rifle sighted barrel for deer slugs. 28" for clays, birds and the 18" for deer and home defense. pop the wooden dowlel out of the magazine to increase the capacity from 3 to 5 andput on the 18.5" barrel and voila a home defense shotty. So much fun. For the price point you can't go wrong so I wouldn't tell momma. Just show up with it the next time she buys some shoes or a purse or some other silly female accoutremant. Or discuss it with her first if you want to keep peace in the house. Good luck.

You're getting a case of G.A.S.!

The Mossberg 500 is the Smith & Wesson .38 of the shotgun world. It doesn't get more reliable. It is also Mil Spec, and is the only shotgun to pass the 3,000 round torture test firing high brass 00 buckshot in a sandy, wet, and dirty environment without failure. The military variant is the Mossberg M590A1, and the main difference is a metal trigger guard, heavier barrel, ghost ring sights and a parkerized (non-glare) matte finish. You'll pay significantly more for this version, and for your needs (and mine) the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

I bought the 500 6 shot and put a top-folding stock on it so it fits under the bed very nicely. I added the ghost ring sights for maximum vis in a low light situation. I don't use it for shooting clays, but it would do just fine.

If you want to get a 500 for clays/home defense, keep the full stock on it and do not put ghost rings on it. Just the front bead is fine. It's not an advantage having a rear peep sight on a gun for clays.

As you get more into clay shooting (and you will), you'll want to try guns tailored for that purpose. Clays guns have removable choke tubes, longer barrels, sometimes ported barrels for gas relief/wad control and tighter groups. Some guys prefer over/unders, others like autos. The blue bloods who roll into the parking lots in Range Rovers won't be seen shooting anything non-Italian.

The big money guns don't really do anything better than the inexpensive ones. It's just window dressing...fancy engraving, gold inlay, exotic hardwood stocks, you get the idea.

Having the ability to change choke tubes is a benefit for skeet/trap/sporting clays shooting because you can use the same gun for each unique situation.

For those that don't know, "Skeet" shooting is very close range at crossing clays. There is a high house and a low house, with one clay launched from each on "Pull". Skeet shooting favors a wide open shot pattern, increasing your odds of a break.

"Trap" shooting is done from a station where the birds are being launched away from you, requiring a tighter shot pattern, or a tighter choke tube. You want your pellets to stay in a tight group for a longer distance for trap.

"Sporting Clays" is a variety of situations, simulating a true hunting experience. Some come at you, others go away, some even roll on the ground like a rabbit. A medium choked barrel (Improved Cylinder) is a good choice.

I know this is a terribly long answer to a short question, so in summary, YES you can use a Mossberg 500 for clay shooting! This would be my recommendation: Mossberg 500 Field/Security combo $249 for BOTH barrels! An 18.5" for home defense and a 28" field barrel for clays.

Damn, N8, you beat me to the answer by 30 seconds!

Ha. plus I am on my phone. I will head to work in a few minutes and get on my computer to really answer Walldogs questions.